GABE PRESSMAN, Host: -- Just a month ago, New York state's Conservative Party chairman, Michael Long, introduced Karl Rove, the embattled deputy White House chief of staff at the Conservative Party dinner here. The speech stirred controversy as Rove attacked Democrats and liberals for being weak on terrorism. And New York Democratic leaders hit back hard. Conservative Chairman Long is no stranger to controversy. Over the years, he's taken on this state's major parties. Recently he's been critical of the Republican governor and the Republican mayor for policies he regards as inconsistent with conservative values. Right now, the Conservative Party is backing Tom Ognibene for mayor even as supporters of Mayor Bloomberg seek to keep Ognibene off the Republican ballot. In a close mayoral election, the Conservative Party could wield the balance of power.

Announcer: From Studio 6B in Rockefeller Center, this is a presentation from News Channel 4, Gabe Pressman's NEWS FORUM. Now your host, senior correspondent Gabe Pressman.

PRESSMAN: Good morning, Michael Long. Welcome.

Mr. MICHAEL LONG (Chairman, State Conservative Party): Good morning, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: You're the leader of the Conservative Party, a party that has often supported Republican candidates for mayor. This year, you've designated Tom Ognibene as your candidate. Why?

Mr. LONG: Well, number one, he's a real Republican. Number two, he's a conservative-minded Republican. He has a wealth of experience. He served as minority leader of City Council, served 10 years, I believe it was, in the City Council. He, in fact, knows the issues of the city of New York. He believes in not raising taxes, but lowering taxes, unlike Michael Bloomberg. So I think it's important that there'll be at least one political party out there that offers an opportunity to people who, in fact, believe their taxes are too high, believe their government is getting too big in this city, who are against social promotion, not just in the seventh grade but in all grades. Why just--the mayor announced the other day he's going to stop social promotion in the seventh grade. Well, that's fine. What are we going to give, social promotion to people in the sixth grade? Why should we have social promotion in any grade?

PRESSMAN: Now if Mayor Bloomberg's supporters, who are making a determined effort to keep Mr. Ognibene off the Republican ballot, if they succeed, do you intend to carry on a strong campaign for Mr. Ognibene anyway?

Mr. LONG: Well, number one, I--hopefully they're not going to succeed and hopefully--because I believe, up and down the city of New York from Staten Island to Woodhaven to Maspeth, that all Republicans, including Republican leaders that say they're for Michael Bloomberg, in their hearts they know they're wrong. They know that Michael Bloomberg is not a true Republican. And I believe Ognibene has a shot to withstand the onslaught of the lawyers and the money that will be thrown against him in the courts. I think--he told me the other day he's going to go all the way to federal court if he has to, to maintain his position on the Republican Party primary ballot. If that fails, if that fails, he has assured me he will run an active campaign on the Conservative Party line.

PRESSMAN: Could that lead to the defeat of Michael Bloomberg in a close election?

Mr. LONG: It's not about defeating Michael Bloomberg or Freddy Ferrer or Virginia Fields or any of the other candidates. This is about a man who I believe is qualified to become mayor of the city of New York, namely Tom Ognibene, a guy who possesses the right philosophy that this town needs so we can turn this place around and people don't have to flee, our kids don't have to leave here to find a home, an affordable home to live in.

PRESSMAN: Would you look forward to being the spoiler for Mayor Bloomberg, whom many people like?

Mr. LONG: You know, Gabe, when you vote principle and you support your principles and you fight for the beliefs that are important for the future of the city and the state, you're never a spoiler. You're a person who is advancing issues, forcing other candidates to possibly cut taxes, forcing other candidates to come down on the conservative side of things. For instance, instead of doing social promotion, ending it in one grade, end it in all grades. So I think you create an atmosphere that puts the major-party candidates on guard and forces them to pay attention to the things you're saying.

PRESSMAN: If the mayor's people persist in trying to keep Ognibene off the ballot, would that be inconsistent with his past actions?

Mr. LONG: Well, consider the fact that this is the mayor advanced and got beat very badly on the issue of--and financed it out of his own pocket, to a great deal--non-partisan elections, because at that time he thought that political parties ruined the scheme of things. Now he's struggling to keep the Republican Party to himself and throw someone off the ballot instead of allowing the process to work. It seems to be a little inconsistent, and it seems to be only--it's only convenient when it suits him.

PRESSMAN: Do you think that people who feel that he's done a good job for the city in being fiscally prudent and managing the city's finances, in innovating in education, in continuing to fight crime and bring it down, do you think that those people are wrong?

Mr. LONG: I'm one of those people who were very disappointed in the mayor. I thought as a businessman, he would shrink the size of government, he would take on the special interest groups in this city; that he would cut taxes, not give us one of the largest increases in real estate taxes in the history of the city, which causes havoc and hardship to seniors who own homes; it causes havoc and hardship to tenants because landlords are forced to raise the rent. So that was not the way to go. That was not the thing to do for this city, and that's not the think that I thought Michael Bloomberg would do. I really thought he, as a businessman, a successful businessman, without--can't take that away from him--that he would have at least erred on the side of some moderately conservative business-type moves to improve life in the city of New York. Raised the real estate taxes through the roof; he put $1.50 a pack tax on cigarettes. I'm not advocating that people should smoke, but he created the largest black-market industry in this city since Prohibition because of what he did with the cigarette prices. And he's putting people out of business--small bodega stores. People are now buying their cigarettes from Indian reservations, mail order, going over to Jersey and Pennsylvania to buy things. He's chasing people right out of town here.

PRESSMAN: The mayor indicated the other day that it's very important, as far as the nomination for the US Supreme Court by President Bush, to find out how this man stands on the question of abortion. And the mayor recently was endorsed by NARAL, the abortion rights group. Do you agree that there should be a litmus test involving abortion?

Mr. LONG: No, absolutely not. I don't think--I'm kind of disappointed again there with the mayor. After all, supposedly, the mayor supported--I don't think he supported President Bush in the first election. It's clear that he supported Hillary Clinton against Rick Lazio. And the Republicans still open their arms to him. That's possibly because he can write big checks. And that gives him the welcome mat more than other candidates were doing and gets away with more. But certainly he should--the president won this election, the president nominated a top, bright, well-thought-of judge, one of the best appellate minds in Washington, DC. What--each particular issue where the judge stands on is not--shouldn't be discussed before confirmation, whatsoever.

PRESSMAN: And you say that this mayor profits from giving money to people?

Mr. LONG: Well, I don't say he profits. I say he...

PRESSMAN: Profits politically.

Mr. LONG: ...gains political stature because it's clear that the Republican Party and, like I said earlier in the program, those leaders know--in their heart they know they're wrong. They know that Michael Bloomberg...

PRESSMAN: You sound like Barry Goldwater. `In their heart...'

Mr. LONG: Well, that statement was, `In your heart, you know he's right.' Well, in their hearts, the leaders of the Republican Party that are supporting Michael Bloomberg, in their hearts they know they are wrong, because I believe most of them support the president of the United States. I haven't heard one voice speak out against the president's pick for the Supreme Court except for one person, and that's Michael Bloomberg, who supposedly is a Republican. But he's a Republican in convenience only. He joined the Republican Party because he couldn't withstand a primary in the Democratic Party.

PRESSMAN: He's a Democratic wolf in sheep's clothing?

Mr. LONG: This is what happens to a political party when you let the fox in the chicken coop, OK, and a fox who is well-heeled, a fox who has a lot of ammunition and can do an awful lot of things with the wealth he has.

PRESSMAN: What would you say to our US senators, Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer, even though, of course, they're not of your political persuasion--what would you say to them about this nominee for the US Supreme Court.

Mr. LONG: I would say to them, `Stop pandering to the left and deal with this on a professional basis. I think the job of the president of the United States is to find the most qualified person he can. I think he's done that. Understand--they both should understand that George Bush, not John Kerry, won this election. So if John Roberts has some of the philosophical beliefs of George W. Bush, he certainly is not going to appoint Teddy Kennedy to the Supreme Court. And that's what Chuck Schumer has to get over, and Hillary Clinton.

PRESSMAN: Like to talk to you about the guest of honor at your dinner, Karl Rove, and what he said about liberals in this liberal city, after this message.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: And we're back here with Michael Long, the chair of the state Conservative Party.

Before we get on to Karl Rove, you said something about Bloomberg being a fox in the chicken coop. What did you mean by that?

Mr. LONG: Well, when the Republican Party throws away their principles and doesn't stand for the things they're supposed to stand for and allows a fox, a Democrat in fox clothes who's got into the chicken coop, what happens? You kill all the chickens. And you kill the political process, you kill the political party, and you kill the party that worked hard for George Bush, worked hard for Ronald Reagan, worked hard for Rick Lazio, Al D'Amato. And I don't believe Mike Bloomberg worked hard for any of those people.

PRESSMAN: Ognibene hasn't been campaigning very hard that we know of, or at least there's not much evidence of that. Say he manages to legally stay in the Republican primary. Does he have a prayer of a chance against this mayor?

Mr. LONG: Well, I think it's an uphill battle because of the amount of money that Bloomberg will bring to the table to fight Ognibene, but I do believe that given the opportunity--I can tell you that my troops were out on the street getting signatures, and I heard from many of the people that gathered signatures for Ognibene were very, very pleased to sign the petition for Ognibene. Many people said, `This is not for Mike Bloomberg, is it?' So there's a--clearly, Bloomberg's forces know they have a problem. Why would they be on TV this early, OK, trying to remake him, remold him, and reconvince people? I mean, one of the ads say he cut taxes. He didn't cut taxes, he didn't cut real estate taxes. He raised taxes. And so they're trying to--I think they know they're in a tough race, and this race is going to tighten up...

PRESSMAN: In the Republican primary?

Mr. LONG: In the Republican primary and also in the general election.

PRESSMAN: Tough race in the general election?

Mr. LONG: I think--look...

PRESSMAN: What about the Quinnipiac poll, the Marist poll, all these other polls that indicate that he's lengthening his margin?

Mr. LONG: I--look, it's July. And if you spend a million or two a week on TV telling the world what a nice guy you are, you know, that's going to work for a while. But when people start thinking down the road, when people start getting their tax bills, when the next person gets $115 parking ticket, there's only one person that implemented all those things--that's Mike Bloomberg. He doubled the parking rates in the city of New York. It made it unconscionable to park a car, run in and get a newspaper, run back out to your car. We should have a friendly city. I'm not saying that people should be allowed...

PRESSMAN: Have you gotten tickets in...

Mr. LONG: I haven't. I haven't. But I tell you one thing, it's chasing the retail business out of the city. Why bother trying to even park your car and get back to the meter in time? Why not go to a mall in Jersey and go to a mall in Pennsylvania and do all your shopping?

PRESSMAN: You're a small businessman yourself.

Mr. LONG: That's correct.

PRESSMAN: You have a liquor store in Queens.

Mr. LONG: In Brooklyn, in Bayridge.

PRESSMAN: Sorry, I got mixed up. I'm not an outer-borough man, you can see, although I've been there.

Anyway, Mr. Rove said at your dinner that the Republicans were seizing the mantle of idealism. Do you agree with that?

Mr. LONG: Yeah, I do. I think this president and the Republican Party and the Senate and the Congress have promoted ideas. The problem with the Democratic Party right now, they don't have--their one whole idea is no, no to everything, no to everything the president puts on the table. The president comes up with Supreme Court nominee, the answer is, from Chuck Schumer, no.

PRESSMAN: Specifically, Mr. Rove said in his speech that conservatives and liberals differ sharply on national security, meaning Iraq; that after 9/11, the conservatives, quote, "saw the savagery and the attacks and prepared for war; that liberals saw the savagery and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for the attackers." That's pretty fierce language, isn't it?

Mr. LONG: I think--that statement was in the context of a 45-minute speech where Karl Rove was laying out the mind-set of conservatives and liberals. And I think it fits very well. And when you look at the way the liberals act--Teddy Kennedy, for instance, who constantly undermines the effort of the president, constantly trying to force other senators, trying to force time tables which undermines our fighting troops in Iraq--clearly there's a difference, different mind-set between liberals and conservatives. And the problem here is liberals aren't winning elections anymore in the main, and that's why they're so adamant against the appointment of Judge Roberts clearly, because while they can't legislate laws anymore because they're not in control, they want an activist judge to change the laws and to write laws from the bench.

PRESSMAN: Mr. Rove has been identified as a prime source in the case of Matthew Cooper and Judith Miller, the two journalists accused of--well, of being in contempt for refusing to identity their source, which apparently was Mr. Rove. Do you believe there should be a shield law, a federal shield law to protect reporters' sources?

Mr. LONG: Well, I th--what I do think is, it was the reporters that reached out for Karl Rove. Karl Rove--it's been proven that he wasn't trying to put the finger on anybody at all. It was the reporters that instigated the phone calls and were prying for information. And...

PRESSMAN: Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

Mr. LONG: Well, that's what reporters do. But it's certainly--people, I think, have been proven wrong that Karl Rove--the first allegations, I mean, from many of the senators, liberal Democratic senators by the way, were calling for him to be taken away from security information. The man--let's face it, liberals don't like Karl Rove because he was the architect of this election and he won and got George Bush re-elected.

PRESSMAN: 2004.

Mr. LONG: 2004. He put it together, he developed the strategy. And they would do anything in their power, meaning the liberals, to pull this man down and get him out of the White House.

PRESSMAN: Yeah. And Judith Miller reported that this person had been outed by a source in the White House. Was it wrong for her to report that information?

Mr. LONG: Well, I'm not sure who her source was, and I'm not so sure if she got from other newspaper people, and I don't know where it came from. And there is an investigation going on now...

PRESSMAN: She didn't actually write a story, Mr. Cooper did...

Mr. LONG: Right.

PRESSMAN: ...but this woman, this reporter, actually supported the administration going into Iraq in terms of the many articles she wrote about weapons of mass destruction.

Mr. LONG: Well, I think she--look, I think reporters have the right to their private sources, OK, except when it interferes in matters of national security. I don't think that--after the investigation, I believe we're going to find out that no breach of national security was broken here. So a lot of this is much over nothing. And a lot of this is politics to bring down Karl Rove and to embarrass the president of the United States. And I think that's going to fail.

PRESSMAN: Do you think there should be a federal shield law for reporters, for journalists?

Mr. LONG: Well, I think in certain circumstances, yes, but I think you have to be careful of that, too, Gabe, because then it gives license to reporters to just say anything and claim they have a source and not have to give it up. So they can be making up stories. And we've seen the print media make up stories over the years. We've seen in that magazines, we've seen that in the newspapers. So we have to be careful of that.

PRESSMAN: Jeanine Pirro, the Westchester County DA, received a rousing reception at your party conference, I believe, at the beginning of the year. She's been mentioned as both a candidate for state attorney general next year and a possibility as a candidate against Hillary Clinton next year. How do you feel about her?

Mr. LONG: Well, look, it's early right now, there's three candidates vying for that position. Jeanine Pirro may run for United States Senate or attorney general--that's not clear yet. Ed Cox has already--former Richard Nixon's son-in-law, is considering a run for the United States Senate and has already formed an exploratory committee. And former Mayor Joe Spencer from Yonkers--he also has indicated that he would like to have the Republican and conservative alliance. So it's rather early to focus on which candidate...

PRESSMAN: And then there's Dr. Antonia Novello, the health commissioner of New York state.

Mr. LONG: I don't think she had--there was some conversation, and I had a conversation with her. But there's been no further conversation. That was some time ago. So I don't believe that is real. But I do believe that without a doubt, Jeanine Pirro, who's a very effective district attorney, is considering running statewide. I know for a fact that Ed Cox is running for United States Senate and Joe Spencer also at this stage in the game.

PRESSMAN: Let's come back and talk about a few other issues, after this message.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: And we're back here with Conservative Party Chairman Michael Long.

Do you see, Mr. Long, a strong possibility that Governor George Pataki will look around and decide, after sniffing out all the possibilities, that he'll run for governor again?

Mr. LONG: I think it's a possibility.

PRESSMAN: In 2006.

Mr. LONG: You know, everyone has clearly said that Eliot Spitzer is, without a question, going to be the next governor. Mr. Spitzer has not been tested in a real, real race.

PRESSMAN: Attorney General Spitzer.

Mr. LONG: Attorney General Spitzer, who is running for governor. Number one, I believe he hasn't been tested in his own party. I'm not sure how well liked he is in his own party. If--I believe if this governor decided to run for re-election, it would be a bruising battle between both of them. And I think the governor could beat Spitzer. He's never been hit with a punch.

PRESSMAN: But you've been lukewarm toward him. You hit him with a few jabs.

Mr. LONG: With who? To the governor?

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Mr. LONG: Well, no, I--look, my job as state chairman of the Conservative Party is to hold true to the principles that this party was formed about back in 1962. And when the governor or senators or assemblymen or congressmen that go off the reservation and promote issues that are not what we believe good for the future of city, state, or the nation, then we are not going to be silent about that. We--our job is to push, push...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. LONG: ....push the elected officials in the right direction.

PRESSMAN: How did Pataki go off the reservation?

Mr. LONG: Well, your word said I was lukewarm. I don't believe I was lukewarm to him at all. I've had some differences with the governor on some spending issues...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. LONG: ...and certainly on a few social issues, too.

PRESSMAN: As far as you're concerned, you don't think that the Democrats would be a shoo-in if Mr. Spitzer ran?

Mr. LONG: Absolutely not. I don't think he's a shoo-in. I think he'll have a primary. The word I hear, he's going to have a primary. Possibly the county exec of Nassau County, Mr. Suozzi, is--a lot of people talking about him running for governor. I think that would be a bruising Democratic primary.

PRESSMAN: As far as you're concerned, the Conservative Party has a future?

Mr. LONG: Conservative Party is alive and well and has a loud voice and a good future.

PRESSMAN: Thank you, Michael Long, for joining us this morning.

I'm Gabe Pressman. Have a good day.