GABE PRESSMAN, Host: -- Mayor Bloomberg made a flying trip to Africa this past week in an 11th-hour attempt to win the Olympics for New York. And former Mayor David Dinkins accompanied him, Dinkins making a pitch to the Olympic Committee, meeting in Ghana, to come here for the Olympic Games of 2012. The city delegation, photographed by a city hall camera, presented to the African group New York's revised plan for replacing Shea Stadium with a stadium meant to serve Olympic needs. Since he ended his term in 1993, Dinkins, the 106th mayor of New York, has kept a keen eye on city affairs and politics, watching the unfolding of the Giuliani and Bloomberg years on the city hall stage.

What does Dinkins think of New York's chances of getting the Olympics now? How does he feel about Mayor Bloomberg's stewardship of the city?

Announcer: From Studio 6B in Rockefeller Center, this is a presentation from News Channel 4, Gabe Pressman's NEWS FORUM. Now your host, senior correspondent Gabe Pressman.

PRESSMAN: Good morning, David Dinkins, and welcome. The Olympic Committee in Ghana, how did they receive you?

Former Mayor DAVID DINKINS (New York City): Very well. We had--in addition to the mayor and deputy mayor, Dan...

PRESSMAN: Doctoroff.

Mr. DINKINS: ...Doctoroff, there were two others that made the presentation. The five of us made this presentation in about 12 minutes. And one was the basketball player Dikembe Mutombo, who's 7'3". And he's a wonderful, wonderful, personable guy.

PRESSMAN: Is he a giant in Ghana or do they grow them big out there?

Mr. DINKINS: No. Well, see, he was from the Congo, and he's very well known throughout Africa. He's going to build a 300-bed hospital in Congo. He and his wife Rose were on the trip. And another fellow, Maio, who is a--What's the word I'm looking for?--investment banker...

PRESSMAN: Mm-hmm.

Mr. DINKINS: ...Credit Suisse First Boston, and he's a Nigerian, trained at Harvard. These were very, very impressive guys.

PRESSMAN: And do you think that they made an impression that will result in New York getting the Olympics?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I certainly hope so. I can tell you this, that we were told later following our presentation--said we had done very well, and this was unsolicited. People just came up and said this kind of comment. See, they have an African organization of Olympic committees, national Olympic committees from various African countries, about, I think, 53 or 54 of them. And of that number, about 18 to 20 actually have a vote...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. DINKINS: ...in the--that will occur in Singapore.

PRESSMAN: Now you went to Africa on the mayor's plane or on a commercial?

Mr. DINKINS: Mayor's plane.

PRESSMAN: On the mayor's plane.

Mr. DINKINS: Everybody should have one, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: You flew many hours.

Mr. DINKINS: It was 11 hours and an hour for refueling.

PRESSMAN: And then you came back with a very small layover, huh?

Mr. DINKINS: Right. Well, we left New York, LaGuardia, at--scheduled to leave at 4, but we were on the tarmac for about three hours because of weather. And we arrived there on Friday morning, went first to an AIDS hospital. That's always a very good thing to do. I'm particularly interested in that. I chair something called the National Black Leadership Commission on AIDS here in New York, or at least I did until a few months ago. And so that was Friday. Then we went to the hotel, and then later that day, we went to the Convention Center, where all the activity was. And then the following morning, Saturday, we went to sort of a basketball clinic, a lot of little kids of varying sizes, and Mutombo was just magnificent with these kids. And then we went back to the Convention Center and sort of lobbied people. And Doctoroff and the mayor really have a grasp of who the various delegates are. And I thought they worked hard and effectively.

PRESSMAN: Now you flew many hours. You got very little sleep. You must have (technical difficulties) knocked out when you got to New York.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, my wife questioned my sanity when I told her I was going to play tennis Sunday morning, 'Cause we thought we were going to get back later in the day and I wouldn't have an opportunity to play. But we got back about 11:00, I guess, Saturday night. So I played tennis Sunday morning.

PRESSMAN: You said recently of Mike Bloomberg, `My biggest criticism of him is that he's a Republican.' Do you really think he's doing a good job as mayor?

Mr. DINKINS: I think that he's doing a pretty good job. But I make the observation that no one of us would do things exactly alike. I'm confident that, were I mayor, I would do some things differently than he has. But I think there's a world of difference between him and his immediate predecessor.

PRESSMAN: You mean the name you won't say.

Mr. DINKINS: No, I'll say it, Rudolph W. Giuliani. World of difference.

PRESSMAN: What's the difference?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, there's a different mood, different tone, different attitude in the people and in the city. Certainly, Gabe, you will remember well a couple dozen First Amendment cases brought by Mayor Giuliani and the...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. DINKINS: ...loss.

PRESSMAN: We had to fight Giuliani on access to Ground Zero, and the press club did, and various broadcast leaders. However, I must say that I've covered nine mayors, including you, and no mayor has been as difficult as far as the ability to ask questions of a mayor as this one. What he does is he....

Mr. DINKINS: You mean as--Which one? Bloomberg or...

PRESSMAN: Yeah, Bloomberg. See, Giuliani and Koch, whether they thought they were so brilliant that they could take the measure of any one of us, they allowed follow-up questions. If you can't follow up as a political reporter, you're dead meat. This guy will point to a reporter, take the question, give his answer and then immediately point to somebody else and not allow a follow-up. And that's pretty bad.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I have not...

PRESSMAN: Even though I saw you in pain many times when you were mayor, you took follow-ups.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I have not been a participant nor a witness of Mayor Bloomberg in press conferences. I really can't intelligently comment on that.

PRESSMAN: Sure, of course.

Mr. DINKINS: But he is, in general, a very personable guy. He's a philanthropist and was before his involvement in government and politics. And for that, I give him high marks because I like people who care about people.

PRESSMAN: You once supported a Republican for mayor. His name was John Lindsay.

Mr. DINKINS: Big John I called him.

PRESSMAN: Right. Could you do it again?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I've been asked that question, as you might imagine, many times, not by anyone as expert as you, certainly, Gabe, but my answer is that on one occasion only did I support a candidate for mayor who was not a Democrat. And then the follow-up question that you just gave usually comes, and my answer is I've responded to that. That's really all I'm going to say.

PRESSMAN: Do you like the current Democratic field, the individuals, those four candidates?

Mr. DINKINS: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. I have met with each of them. Some I know, of course, better than others, certainly Virginia Fields and Freddie and...

PRESSMAN: Freddie Ferrer.

Mr. DINKINS: ...Freddie Ferrer and the speaker, Giff Miller. I know them better perhaps than I know Congressman Weiner, but I know them all. I like them all. I've met with each of them, but I've not yet made a judgment.

PRESSMAN: Will you do it before the primary is over, or are you going to wait?

Mr. DINKINS: The answer is, I really don't know. I really don't know. As you know, things happen, and there could come some occurrence that will compel me to make a judgment sooner than I would wish.

PRESSMAN: You said that you might have some difference with Bloomberg about some of the things he's done. What specifically would you have done differently?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, when I first met with him at his request the day following the election, the discussion I had with him was about the homeless. And I think he's done a pretty good job in that area, but I have some differences, some quarrel. And I'm now on the board of the Coalition for the Homeless, and there are a few things I'd like to see done differently. I anticipate meeting with the commissioner, Commissioner Gibbs, who works very hard at this in a--very shortly, in a matter of days. So I don't want to negotiate, as it were, on television. I need to say directly to her as I have to the mayor what my concerns are.

PRESSMAN: And you won't say to me what your concerns are?

Mr. DINKINS: No, for the reason that I think it's unfair. They will not have had an opportunity to respond to say, `Well, no, we're going to continue to do things as we are now doing them,' or, `Yes, you make a point, and we'll amend our structure a little.'

PRESSMAN: I'd like to come back and talk to you a little bit about David Dinkins and children after this.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: We're back here with former Mayor David Dinkins. You said there--something could happen which would make you (technical difficulties) make an endorsement.

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah, well...

PRESSMAN: Like what?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I don't know, but something negative could occur on behalf of one of the candidates, which would compel me to make an observation publicly about it.

PRESSMAN: But what I'm picking up from you, though, is unlike Giuliani or Koch, you're not likely to endorse Bloomberg, even though you don't dislike the man.

Mr. DINKINS: But, Gabe, that's the same question you asked me earlier.

PRESSMAN: Sometimes you'd follow up and...

Mr. DINKINS: I know.

PRESSMAN: ...get a slightly different answer.

Mr. DINKINS: You're good, Gabe. You're very good.

PRESSMAN: I don't get the chance with this mayor.

Mr. DINKINS: I know. I know. But I'm not going to--I'm really not going to respond to that...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. DINKINS: ...because I really don't know what I'm going to do yet.

PRESSMAN: The Diallo case; Freddie Fernando Ferrer said it wasn't a crime. I believe that he said it because a jury found that it wasn't a crime. They acquitted these officers. You and Ferrer were both arrested in civil disobedience over the situation. How do you feel? Should that be an issue in the campaign?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, first let me say that I was very moved by the Diallo situation. And Charlie Rangel and I and Al Sharpton were among the first arrested. And, as a matter of fact, I am the chairman of the Amadou Diallo Foundation. So I was disturbed by Freddie's comment. I thought he ought not have made it. And I know attempted to explain that away, and some people accept his explanation.

PRESSMAN: Deal?

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah, I'm not--I think he's a good person, and I know that he knows that that was a dastardly deed. But I'm equally confident that some people will not have as generous an attitude about that.

PRESSMAN: So it's going to hurt him?

Mr. DINKINS: I think it might in some areas, not every one.

PRESSMAN: In the African-American community?

Mr. DINKINS: That's where it would hurt him, if it hurts him anywhere.

PRESSMAN: Would that make it impossible for you to endorse him?

Mr. DINKINS: No. No, it wouldn't make it impossible for me to endorse him, but I have not made a--I haven't eliminated anyone, not Freddie, not Virginia, not Weiner, not Miller.

PRESSMAN: And not Mike Bloomberg.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, my response to that is I've never endorsed a candidate for mayor who was not a Democrat other than John Lindsay, and I just leave it at that.

PRESSMAN: It's like reading tea leaves. You spend a lot of your time playing tennis, teaching at Columbia, and I understand that you still spend a lot of time with children. I remember one time you were going into a schoolhouse when you were mayor. There were little kids playing in front, and you said something to me--I was standing there--`See those kids? Everything else is "I'll clean it up a little." Baloney. They're the only people who count.' You really believe that.

Mr. DINKINS: I do. I love children, and most of my involvement now has to do with children or youth programs. Association to Benefit Children, which is run by a wonderful woman named Gretchen Buchenholz...

PRESSMAN: I know her.

Mr. DINKINS: And--yeah. Well, you know that I don't exaggerate. She's amazing. She has children of her own and adopted another little child named Miggle, who is my granddaughter, and if I'm with Gretchen, I will introduce her as the mother of one of my grandchildren and say no more. But anyway, there's that, there's Skip Hartman's New York Junior Tennis League. That and the Sports and Arts in Schools provide...

PRESSMAN: And you'll actually go and speak to children?

Mr. DINKINS: Oh, heck, yeah.

PRESSMAN: In schools?

Mr. DINKINS: Oh, yeah. I do that a lot. I went to a second-grade class at Hunter Elementary. This is my third consecutive year at that. A wonderful teacher, Marie Rhone.

PRESSMAN: Do they ask good questions, tough questions?

Mr. DINKINS: Oh, yeah. Gabe, meaning no disrespect, they're as good as you. I mean, they...

PRESSMAN: Probably better.

Mr. DINKINS: They are--well, they're candid and they're very bright. They're very bright, and this particular class, I instituted something where I read them a poem, and so one of them is "A Bridge Builder," and it's a--the idea is that it's--an old man crosses a dangerous chasm, gets to the other side and then constructs a bridge. And someone says, `Well, why are you doing that? You're never going to pass this way again.' And he said, `There may follow me a youth, and he may not be able to do as well. This chasm may to him a pitfall be, so I'm building this bridge for him.' So I read the poem to them slowly, you know, sentence by sentence, then ask, `What do you think that means?' And the answers you get are just brilliant, that you should care for others and language like that.

And then there's one about--the story of the starfish. A fellow is picking up starfish from the beach and throwing them into the ocean, and someone comes along and says, `Why are you doing that?' `Because if it lies here and the sun comes out, the starfish'll die. And so I'm throwing it into the ocean to save that starfish.' So the person says, `Yeah, but there are thousands, millions of starfish. You can't save them all. What difference can it make?' And he says, `I makes a difference to this one.' And they understand that.

Children are amazing, and while I go to places like Princeton and Harvard and Yale, and of course I teach at Columbia, NYU, and that's nice and I love students, but the most fun of all are the real little ones, the young ones.

PRESSMAN: In your apartment I noticed some years ago, you've got a lot of pictures on a table as you walk in, and they're pictures of children. They can't possibly be your descendants. You have two children, right?

Mr. DINKINS: Right.

PRESSMAN: And how many grandchildren?

Mr. DINKINS: Two grandchildren. Our daughter has--you notice I said, `our daughter.' I tell my wife--I said, `our daughter,' not `my daughter.'

PRESSMAN: I'll tell her.

Mr. DINKINS: Our daughter has two children, Jamaal and Khalila. Khalila is a girl, 15, and Jamaal is a boy, 18. And our son, whose name is David--we never called him Junior.

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. DINKINS: But he and his girl do not contribute to the grandchildren pool.

PRESSMAN: Aha. But all those pictures of kids, why do you have them there? They--are they...

Mr. DINKINS: ...(Unintelligible) friends' kids.

PRESSMAN: Are they children who belong to friends of yours?

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah. Yeah.

PRESSMAN: And people you meet along the way?

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah, yeah. And I tell people I'm in charge of children, children I haven't even met yet. They are what's important to us, Gabe, and I know you know that. Your son, who's now an adult, but I remember when he was a little fellow.

PRESSMAN: And my fourth child...

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...Michael. Well, you're the first black mayor in the city's history, and this time a black woman--never had a woman mayor--Virginia Fields, a Latino man, Fernando Ferrer, are running. You think that the demographics of New York are changing so that a Latino could win?

Mr. DINKINS: Oh, yeah. And as a matter of fact, I think it's a very good thing that you have a field like this with a woman, and indeed a black woman, and a Puerto Rican. I think that's good.

PRESSMAN: Healthy.

Mr. DINKINS: It's a very positive thing. It--I--one of the reasons that my success was important and what my personal achievement--I was simply the standard-bearer for a cause. But it's a good thing because it demonstrates that anyone can win.

PRESSMAN: You've taken a lot of abuse over your term, for example, that crime was out of hand, and actually history shows that crime rates actually began to decline during your administration, not the Giuliani administration, although there was a decline there, too. Do you think that you've gotten a bum rap on crime?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I think that the thing that amuses me most is not the failure of some to acknowledge that Ray Kelly was my police commissioner also for a couple years and that crime did, in fact, start to go down as early as 1991; but the most amusing thing is the way some discuss the subject, there was no crime on December 31st, 1989, only January 1st, 1990, when Dinkins took office. Koch never, ever gets blamed for crime. So I wonder--they do statistics, because I guess they work in 10-year increments or something, so they started in 1990. But no one looks--when last have you heard anyone discuss the crime in our city in 1989?

PRESSMAN: Well, I guess you do think you got a bum rap.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I know one thing, that thanks to Lee Brown and Ray Kelly--Lee did a good job with our Safe Streets, Safe City program.

PRESSMAN: OK. Let's come back and talk about a couple of more personal things after this.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: And we're back here with former Mayor David Dinkins.

You were born in Trenton in 1927, I've read.

Mr. DINKINS: July 10th.

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. DINKINS: Which, incidentally, is the same birthday as Arthur Ashe and Virginia Wade, but I'm not suggesting that necessarily means anything.

PRESSMAN: While we're talking about your birth, how do you think you'll be remembered in New York's history?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I'm not sure, but of one thing I am certain: History judges one differently than contemporary observers, and so I think that as time passes, I hope that not me personally so much, but our administration will be seen for some of the things that we accomplished. Some folks will remember that we spent $47 million when we had no money to keep each branch library open six days a week. They'll remember us receiving Nelson Mandela. They'll remember that--not simply the difficulties of Crown Heights, but they'll remember that when the Rodney King verdict came down and--there were riots in many major cities of the country, but not in New York City. And I have on my wall in my office at Columbia now a certificate signed by Felix Rohatyn, as head of the Municipal Assistance Corporation, commending me for the fact that we had peace in our city. Needless to say, it wasn't Dave Dinkins that did it. It was something that we called had Increase the Peace Corps, and a lot of wonderful volunteers that went out into the street and said, `This is our city. Let's keep this safe.' And so--and we did it.

PRESSMAN: How old were you when you moved from Newark to Harlem?

Mr. DINKINS: Well, no, it was Trenton.

PRESSMAN: Trenton, I'm sorry.

Mr. DINKINS: Trenton makes the world ...(unintelligible). they say.

PRESSMAN: Yeah, yeah.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I was about six or seven, and my mother and father separated. My mother came here to New York. She and my grandmother were domestics, cooking, cleaning for other people.

PRESSMAN: How old were you?

Mr. DINKINS: Six or seven.

PRESSMAN: Six or seven.

Mr. DINKINS: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: And did you ever dream, in those days, when you were going to school and living in Harlem, that someday you'd be greeting world leaders like Nelson Mandela?

Mr. DINKINS: No, I certainly didn't. As a matter of fact, even when I finished law school, I had no notion of public service then. I joined a political club about 1958 or so. I finished law school in '56, but I was working two jobs. I went downtown as a lawyer and then I worked in a liquor store at night, as I had done all through law school. And so when I got to the point where I could give up the night job, I joined the political club.

PRESSMAN: So your life has surprised you.

Mr. DINKINS: Well, I think I am a very, very lucky person. I'm very fortunate.

PRESSMAN: Thank you very much, David Dinkins, for joining us this morning.

I'm Gabe Pressman. Have a good day.