GABE PRESSMAN, Host: -- In 2001, Fernando Ferrer, the former Bronx Borough president, ran for mayor, but Mark Green defeated him in the Democratic primary. Now, even as New York politicians prepare for the national political conventions, they are looking ahead, too, to the mayoral campaign of 2005. Can they defeat the incumbent Republican mayor, Michael Bloomberg, who is reportedly ready to spend $100 million to be re-elected?

What are the key issues? Ferrer has already indicated he's running. City Comptroller William Thompson, City Council Speaker Gifford Miller, Manhattan Borough President C. Virginia Fields, and Congressman Anthony Weiner and Councilman Charles Barron are potential candidates, too.

Announcer: From Studio 6B in Rockefeller Center, this is a presentation from News Channel 4, Gabe Pressman's NEWS FORUM. Now your host, senior correspondent Gabe Pressman.

PRESSMAN: Good morning, Fernando Ferrer, and welcome.

Mr. FERRER: Good to be with you again, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: The mayor has just announced a plan to--a far-reaching plan to reduce the number of homeless people in New York City by two-thirds in the next five years with 12,000 units of housing to be built. How do you feel about that?

Mr. FERRER: Oh, it sounds great. Nearly three years ago, when I escorted Mark Green into his debate with Michael Bloomberg, Mike Bloomberg made a comment in answer to the question on homelessness which I thought a Democrat should make which was this is a city that--that is wealthy enough, smart enough, much of what he said now, that shouldn't be tolerating homelessness and we--there's no reason why we can't do something about it. I thought he gave the standout answer of that debate. It took three years to come up with a five-year plan and you and I have lived individually and collectively through more five- and 10-year plans than the law allows. We have reason to be optimistic, but we also have reason to--to suggest to the mayor that the important thing to do here is to remember what works. Building affordable housing as we saw in the Koch administration cuts homelessness and that's where I hope he ends up.

PRESSMAN: And do you think that we're going to end up that way?

Mr. FERRER: My hope is we do. I mean, he's talking about some supportive housing and that's always important. He's talking about improving the intake and people sleeping on the floor on the Emergency Assistance Unit in the South Bronx. It's always a--a stain on this city, and if he does that, that's fine, but at the end of the day, it's improving the supply of affordable housing.

PRESSMAN: What about the--the fact that he's also talking about disqualifying people?

Mr. FERRER: Well, he is, and that's certainly, you know, a--Gabe, that sometimes seems to me to be a sop to all the right-wing editorial boards and pundits in this town who really want homelessness to go away. `Well, go live somewhere else.' Look, a family, a mother with children does not willingly live in the subway if they have an alternative. If there's a place to stay, they stay in it, and everybody knows that.

PRESSMAN: But what about the--he says that if they've got a family and a place where they could stay, do you think that that's a proper alternative? Are we going to be able to det--to determine that, like is it...

Mr. FERRER: Gabe, that's at--at best a temporary measure because you're not dealing with the permanent problem, the lack of a home. Look, let's play it out. Suddenly, one of us becomes homeless. We can stay with our sister. We can stay with a relative...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. FERRER: ...and that's fine. We're--are we going to stay forever with that relative? No, the relative is going to say, `Look, get out of here in six months. I have a family. I've got a life to live.' It's not permanent.

PRESSMAN: Do you think the solution that is laid out so far is simplistic?

Mr. FERRER: It's somewhat simplistic and somewhat appeals to--you know, to the right-wingers out there who believe that homelessness is a phony problem, that publicly assisted housing is some kind of free lunch and don't understand the importance to the economy of this city that that is.

PRESSMAN: You said at the time that the mayor was touting his effort to have non-partisan elections, that he was--well, on--for one thing, you said that we ought to do something to keep rich folks from monopolizing elections.

Mr. FERRER: Right.

PRESSMAN: That sounded like a reference to him, and then you also said we should focus on New York's real problems. You still feel that way?

Mr. FERRER: Sure, I do. I...

PRESSMAN: Well, what are the real problems? Isn't homeless just one of them?

Mr. FERRER: Homelessness is certainly one of them, and I would encourage the mayor to go even farther to match his rhetoric of nearly three years ago that moved even a Democrat. I would urge the mayor to focus on the important issues of the city rather than to look to spend $600 million of the public's money on a Jets stadium. We need to look at public safety in the city...

PRESSMAN: But it was that stadium that was...

Mr. FERRER: ...police and fire protection.

PRESSMAN: ...supposed to be $1.4 billion with the city picking up $300 million and the state picking up $300 million.

Mr. FERRER: That's right.

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Mr. FERRER: That's right. And it doesn't mention that the cost of the air rights over the tracks is another $1.9 billion that the city will pick up by building a Number 7 line that goes all the way to the West Side but that mysteriously and inexplicably misses Penn Station, so...

PRESSMAN: You don't like the plan for a new West Side stadium.

Mr. FERRER: Gabe, there may be strong arguments to spend that amount of the public's money on the stadium, but if this is such a good deal, one, let the private sector do it if it's such a good deal, and, two, I really as a New Yorker have a problem with the intense secrecy arounding--surrounding this stadium and the financing. Look, New Yorkers get it right when they have all the information, when they're given enough time to debate. Let's take it out of the back rooms and bring it out to the public.

PRESSMAN: You have a feeling there's some secret dealing going on?

Mr. FERRER: I have a feeling that--in fact, I know what I read in the papers and what you all have reported, that the team's own financial analysis was adopted by the city instead of the city conducting an independent financial analysis, that nobody can...

PRESSMAN: In other words, the Jets--the Jets study is the one we're basing this whole project on.

Mr. FERRER: That's exactly right, that one of the interesting aspects of the st--Jets stadium is that the naming rights go all to the owner and the city gets nothing.

PRESSMAN: Now what about the cost? You say the true cost has not been actually publicized. What--what is the true cost?

Mr. FERRER: Well, you've got to figure in the true cost at nearly $2 billion for the extension of the Number 7 line which the city will undertake by itself.

PRESSMAN: That's the subway line.

Mr. FERRER: That's right. But by the way, there are good reasons to do that, but certainly not to bypass Penn Station.

PRESSMAN: And what about the air rights?

Mr. FERRER: The air rights deri--you know, really cause that. We've got to give the MTA something for giving us $1.9 billion worth of air rights over those tracks. It's owned by the MTA, not us.

PRESSMAN: So they didn't...

Mr. FERRER: I--I saw this movie before. It was called "Yankee Stadium on the West Side." It was a bad movie then. It hasn't gotten much better in the re-release.

PRESSMAN: You think that the cost to the taxpayers is much more than $300 million or $600 million.

Mr. FERRER: As--as sure as God made little green apples, that is the case. Did anyone forget the term `overrun' in this city?

PRESSMAN: Cost overrun.

Mr. FERRER: That's right.

PRESSMAN: So you think we ought to not go ahead with that.

Mr. FERRER: I think we've got to debate it fully, and I think full disclosure is the thing that's missing in this entire debate about Jets stadium.

PRESSMAN: But wi--without Je--a Jets stadium, we lose our--maybe lose our chances to get tw--2012 Olympics. Don't you think the Olympics would bring in tremendous revenue as the mayor has said...

Mr. FERRER: The mayor has claimed that it would bring in tremendous revenue.

PRESSMAN: ...and Deputy Mayor Doctoroff?

Mr. FERRER: Deputy Mayor Doctoroff who I first met when he chaired the 2012 Olympics bid. They claim that but actually no one has supported that with any evidence. And, in fact--look, if this is going to cost even more of taxpayer money, then it really is about choices. Do we close six firehouses to pay for this? Do we nickle and dime senior citizens and the frail homebound elderly and Meals on Wheels to pay for this? Do we not build schools to pay for this? Do we not build permanent affordable housing to pay for this? Those are the choices that need to be met.

PRESSMAN: Do you--as it stands now, do you think this will be an issue in the mayoral election of 2005?

Mr. FERRER: Look, I hope not. I hope, you know, we have a robust public debate about it and the people get all the information that they need and deserve. I'm certainly one who believes people should get full disclosure on something like this. We're talking about people's money. We're going to take money out of their pockets to essentially give to an owner of a private team. Now we get nothing really back for that much more than what they claim. Now by the way, the claims have not been substantiated. I remember when the Giuliani administration put out a memo in support of Yankee Stadium on the West Side that claimed we'd make billions if we put Yankee Stadium there, and when that memo was finally analyzed, it was found to be ridiculous on its face. Oh, let these things be analyzed. Let the public know about them.

PRESSMAN: Don't you think that Mayor Bloomberg's heart is in the right place, that he's trying to make the city as a whole wealthier by building new things?

Mr. FERRER: Gabe, I don't doubt that the mayor's heart is in the right place, and I don't doubt he's a well-meaning and good man. That's not the point here. I really do believe he's making poor choices, and, in fact, if the choices between a stadium for a football team and affordable housing, schools, well-maintained parks and improved infrastructure, well, the stadium is the last one on my list.

PRESSMAN: OK. Let's come back and talk about schools and the mayor's educational programs after this.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: And we're back here with Fernando Ferrer.

What about the mayor's approach to education, centralizing it under his office rather than having it with an independent--or so-called independent board? How do you feel about the way that's working out so far?

Mr. FERRER: Well, you know, Gabe, on your program, almost two years ago, I supported the mayor's efforts to get rid of the community school boards, to get rid of this overlaying wasteful level of bureaucracy, centralize the school system and begin to do the kinds of things we needed to--to reform the bureaucracy, reform the curriculum and teach kids better. I supported the mayor in all those things. I still believe that we needed an independent board of public citizens to discuss out in the open...

PRESSMAN: Well, he's got an advisory board.

Mr. FERRER: Yeah, we've--and we found out how advisory they were when he...

PRESSMAN: Yeah, he--he--he told them that if they spoke to the press, they would be fired.

Mr. FERRER: And, in fact, he fired three people, two of his own and one appointee of the Staten Island borough president for merely asking for more time. Three women who asked for a little more time to--and they probably would have voted with him on the third grade retention plan...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. FERRER: ...that he put forward but they asked for a little more time. Look, if you want a potted plant or a rubber stamp, that's fine, but I s--do believe that you need an independent board discussing out in the open important educational policy and a budget of over $12 billion.

PRESSMAN: So you think there's a tendency in this administration to have things kept secret?

Mr. FERRER: There is a very troubling tendency that I alluded to before with Jets stadium, certainly with this third grade retention program to--to ke--and--and so many other issues.

PRESSMAN: Well...

Mr. FERRER: They keep everything secret.

PRESSMAN: Well, let's talk about the third grade retention program. I've--you know, I've--I've seen press conferences where he--Joe Klein, the school's chancellor, and the mayor discu--discussed it. Let's talk about the merits of the actual program of holding back kids in the third grade who don't make the grade because social promotion is wrong. Do you agree with that?

Mr. FERRER: Well, I'd like to measure every--every initiative by the outcome. I think that's reasonable. What are the results? When we did that in the '70s, we found out what the results were. It accelerated high school dropout rates. When you do third grade retention or any grade retention alone with no other intervention, that's the problem. When you do social promotion, something I'm opposed to as well, alone, that doesn't solve the problem and it exacerbates it as well.

PRESSMAN: What is the problem?

Mr. FERRER: The problem is--one di--there--there--there are two problems. One problem is we know what to do. We know what works, earlier intervention. In kindergarten and the first grade, reduce class size, better and more qualified and certified teachers at the earliest grades, earlier assessment and intervention, an extended school day. All the things that Mike Bloomberg said he was for are the things that work. Now the--hitting an ideological target may be fine, but this third grade retention program, by the way, is more bark than bite. You have a number of different levels of appeal if your child gets a hold-back letter. So, in fact, it's about the same as it was when Ed Koch implemented it, when Rudy Giuliani implemented it and now that Mike Bloomberg is implementing it. And the thing that surprises me is the people who write about this in a lot of the newspapers must have amnesia and don't remember when this was done before and everybody said, `This was the war to end all wars.'

PRESSMAN: So you think the social promotion program will not work as it's presently constituted.

Mr. FERRER: Well, I think it's a whole lot more bark than bite. I think we spend enormous amounts of money on test preparation for kids instead of really teaching them how to read, write, com--compute and reason.

PRESSMAN: On another subject, the New York Post ran a story the other day, headlined "Freddie Shocker," alleging that you helped contractors who helped--who held fund-raisers for you to get loans from government agencies. Is this true?

Mr. FERRER: As I told the New York Post in that story, it was baloney. Any--anybody who contributes to any campaign of mine or holds a fund-raiser for me, I'm appreciative to but not so appreciative that I would do something I deem unethical. And, in fact, in The Bronx Overall Economic Development Corporation, in order to get a federally guaranteed loan under the Small Business Administration, you have to put in 10 percent. You have to go through a committee of bankers. You have to go through another lending institution. So it's obvious nonsense.

PRESSMAN: And do you think somebody's gunning for you?

Mr. FERRER: Look, I've been in politics a while, Gabe. I have a thick skin, and I'm--and I'm not naive. These things happen.

PRESSMAN: This fund-raiser that--that they referred to was hosted by a businessman named Victor Ci--Cintron and it was arranged by an assistant of yours and Manny Gonzalez, a parking lot owner. Is that correct?

Mr. FERRER: Well, I don't think it was arranged by an assistant of mine, but it was arranged by a guy named Manny Gonzalez, someone who I had known since I was 16 years old. Again--and there was an insinuation in the paper that--that a relationship was begun because he had raised some money for me. No. I've known the guy since I was 16. I'd been to his home. He'd been to mine. That he, by the way, got caught up in this awful mess with Senator Velella breaks my heart, but he's paying his debt to society and he's serving time in prison as he should.

PRESSMAN: A recent New York Times poll show that more New Yorkers approve of Bloomberg's handling of his job than they did last June, that it went up from 24 percent to 38 percent. Do you think that most people--that more people do think that he's doing a good job?

Mr. FERRER: Well, I think certainly when you come out with a--with a proposal to send most people--or 700,000 people who happen to be homeowners and co-op and condo owners a $400 check in the mail, don't that...

PRESSMAN: You're talking about the rebate.

Mr. FERRER: That's right. We're not naive. Everybody likes to get a check in the mail, but the simple fact is if you're giving me that check in the mail while you're cutting afterschool programs, cutting my firehouse, this doesn't make sense.

PRESSMAN: Are you going to run for mayor next year? You s--have indicated you will.

Mr. FERRER: I'm doing all the things that a candidate must do to prepare for a campaign, Gabe. I'll make that announcement certainly after the presidential election because I think the most important work that a Democrat can do is electing a president. By the way, I was amused to--and--and--and--and encouraged to see Mayor Bloomberg finally stop fund raising for--for Republicans who have been hurting this city and I would encourage him to think a little more about the president he's been supporting and the convention he wrote with a--he supported with a $5 million check that has been leading the charge against this city.

PRESSMAN: Well, the Republican convention is coming to New York. Don't you think it's going to benefit us economically?

Mr. FERRER: Well, you know, we might get a couple of bucks off sales taxes and people staying in hotels, but that party has been consistently shortcha--and the party's leadership by the way. Now you can't separate one guy who voted wrong from the leadership of that party beca--because it's not honest. They've been shortchanging the city to the tune of billions, billions. Give us those billions. We need that to keep people safe. We need that to rebuild our damaged and destroyed infrastructure. We need that to protect our city...

PRESSMAN: You're talking about the...

Mr. FERRER: ...from future attacks.

PRESSMAN: ...money they haven't appropriated for public safety and other matters.

Mr. FERRER: That's right. And, you know, the i--irony of the $400 rebate is that it is taxable as Mayor Bloomberg finally acknowledges and will we pay taxes on that? We'll be sending that to the federal government. It'll probably end up in some corn field in Kentucky or Iowa that'll protect them from terrorists instead of us.

PRESSMAN: Well, we'll be back with a couple of questions about your early life after this.

(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: Here again with Fernando Ferrer.

I wanted to ask you about growing up in the East Bronx or the South Bronx, I should say, but first, a question about your potential opponents for the Democratic nomination for mayor. Gifford Miller, the council speaker, seems to be out early. You think he's going to be a tough opponent for you?

Mr. FERRER: Well, I think they're all going to be tough and credible opponents. Look, there are Democrats. My argument is not with them. It's with a Republican mayor who has gone bail for too many Republicans who've been beating this city out of billions of dollars.

PRESSMAN: Think there's going to be a fractious campaign that's going to so divide the Democrats that they're going to automatically lose?

Mr. FERRER: No, I really don't think so this time. I think there are people who are committed to keeping it a civil, respectful debate on the issues and I think that will elevate politics in this city.

PRESSMAN: You grew up on Fox Street and Colin Plo--Powell grew up in that neighborhood, too, right?

Mr. FERRER: Two blocks away on Kelly Street.

PRESSMAN: On Kelly Street. And you have some other illustrious people.

Mr. FERRER: Musicians, band leaders, just a--an enormous number of New Yorkers pass through that area. Well, you lived in the South Bronx, too, on the West Side.

PRESSMAN: That's right, over near Yankee Stadium.

Mr. FERRER: That's right.

PRESSMAN: What was it like when--when you were growing up?

Mr. FERRER: It's something I miss today.

PRESSMAN: The neighborhood.

Mr. FERRER: It was a very mixed neighborhood, early '50s, Jewish delicatessens, Italian grocery stores and candy stores. You lived with everybody. If you wanted to sample the great cuisines of the world, all you had to do was walk to the next room.

PRESSMAN: What happened?

Mr. FERRER: The bottom fell out of that neighborhood like so many other neighborhoods in the South Bronx and all the South Bronxes of this city--the disinvestment, the fires, the abandonment. It was a pretty sad sight. When I announced my campaign for mayor in 2001, I announced it on the corner where I grew up, a corner where I lived, now has pretty two-family houses with nice back yards but used to be five- and six-story walk-up buildings with a tremendous energy on that street.

PRESSMAN: Well, do you think the energy's out of the city?

Mr. FERRER: No, it's there in a different way. The people who live there now are dreaming big dreams for themselves and their kids. They're paying their mortgages. They'd rather miss a meal than a mortgage payment. They have great block parties. They're great constituencies for clean parks and safe streets. They leave a little extra in the plate on Sunday. That's a nice thing.

PRESSMAN: How many kids do you have?

Mr. FERRER: I have one and two grandchildren. By the way, now that you've mentioned it--now that you've mentioned it, I do have a--my pictures here. I don't know if...

PRESSMAN: Those are the grandchildren?

Mr. FERRER: These are my two grandsons. That's Brendon...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Mr. FERRER: ...and that's Jaylen Fernando. His middle name is Fernando. Jay, there'll be a little something extra for you.

PRESSMAN: You can't see them too well. There we are. Those are the grandchildren.

Mr. FERRER: And these two and a half years out of public life give me an opportunity to be there a little more as I should for my family. So it's been good for me, too.

PRESSMAN: And yet, you still yen--you have a yen for going back.

Mr. FERRER: I miss the choices. I miss the s--public service. I don't always miss the politics but I do miss the public service.

PRESSMAN: Well, thank you very much, Fernando Ferrer, for being with us today.

Mr. FERRER: Thank you.

PRESSMAN: I'm Gabe Pressman. Good day.